Kirsty,

I have recently been putting my CV out there and have had a lot of contact with recruitment consultants - its been an interesting experience. It feels to me as if things are starting to pick givn the number of postings i have been seeing (that may just be my sector).

 I think Ken is being a bit disingenuous with his comment that "They are only concerned about their commission and not your welfare." Yes ofcourse they want commission, but my thoughts would be the can't get commission without caring for your welfare. Its very much like companies offering good customer service, it costs them more upfront but has payback in the longer term.

 The best recruitment agencies adopt this approach and know that a good relationship with both employers and applicants is essential to their reputation and long term success.

My top recommendations are:

- evaluate each recruitment consultant as themselves and don't assume they are all evil

- try to understand their relationship with employers, a big plus is exclusivity. they will have a long term relationship with specific employers. this means they can see whats in the pipeline and tend to be a bit more open. it does mean they maybe more restrained in submitting some candidates

- don't meet with them until you have seen at least a few job specs which would meet your criteria, otherwise you could be drinking coffee all day long

- use their knowledge, many of them have seen a lot of bad candidates. get recommendations on your CV, and what to pull out from it for examples. use your time talking to them as practice interviews.

- ask to see what the submit - its YOU they are submitting! lots of them like to chop and change CVs, sometimes this is ok, sometimes it isn't

- talk to colleagues and friends about good agencies they have used

- don't say no, but be firm. lots of times I say, these roles aren't a good fit because of ABC, but keep me on file in case you find a better fit

- keep a list of who you have talked to, keep it neatly filed with some notes on roles and contact details.

- using recruitment consultants you have to accept its a bit like a scattergun. You''ll have to explore lots of options to find the right role. Try to keep in manageable though, maybe have 4 or 5 open channels at once..

 I'm not sure I'd buy the comment "My advice to you would be to stick it out for a while at your current place ( maybe a couple more years) until things start picking up."

In my experience - (even in this job market) strong candidates have nothing to fear.  There are roles out there that need filling. And the fact you are willing to try and progress your career in this climate is already one tick in the box that employers are looking for :)

Best of Luck

Brian

Ken - no I am not a recruitment consultant!! Although its an interesting question whether any ACMAs are consultants.

You'd have know this however if you looked at my posting history: https://community.cimaglobal.com/users/8959

I've discussed many more subjects than recruitment and given some people some helpful advice (they even said so!) Oh and my profile says I am not a consultant as well :)

The fact is many jobs can only be accessed through recruitment consultants so blocking this route would be foolish. Thats not to say you shouldn't use all the other channels available, direct applications, speculative letters, networking are all valuable - I agree,

I have had a couple of really good experiences with recruitment consultants, and a more than a few with what sounded like Ken's old agency. I'd urge you to recognise the level or service can vary significantly - there are many shades of grey.

... then again I had a really good and professional experience with my estate agent.. so..!!

Cheers Brian (acma!)

First off, thank you for the responses, I wasn't sure whether anyone would post!

Sorry this is lengthy, posts from both Brian and Ken have raised some pretty interesting points and since you've both taken the time to reply it's only fair that I respond to as many of those points as I can...

Brian - with my hand on my heart I can say that the approach I've taken thus far has been very much as you've recommended.  Of the agencies I have seen it's been on the back of applying for roles, getting no response and then being a bit pushy in order to get them to meet me so they can get a measure of me beyond my CV.  That's where it gets frustrating as each meeting I've had has delivered some great information about the roles available however the ones I originally contacted them about have gone by the time of the meeting.

The meetings have all ended the same: a promise to send through further specs that suit my experience and search, that having met me they would have every confidence in recommending me for interviews and with me leaving with a hope that this particular meeting may bear more fruit than previous meetings.

Not one of them has followed up on that.

I'd love to ask friends/colleagues for recommendations but there's no one withing those groups who are in a similar line of work to me. And I've yet to speak to anyone who has got their current job via an agency.

Perhaps as both Ken and Brian have suggested I need to switch gears a bit and also send out some speculative CVs and cover letters directly to companies.  Irritatingly, the majority of the best roles seem to be via agencies so I think I'll need to persevere with them in the meantime!

I'm definitely not out to tar all agencies or consultants with the same disappointing brush, but it's getting very difficult to remain upbeat and open-minded.  If it was my CV or approach at least I could work on that, but from what the consultants have said there doesn't appear to be an issue in those areas.

That's what led me to ask whether it's maybe okay to 'pester' people.  I have sent follow up emails to the consultants, thanking them for their time and inviting further response.  Of those who have replied (not all have) they've promised to keep me in mind but then nothing further.  If I see anything advertised by those agencies I apply via the ad and also sometimes send off a copy of the application to the consultant I met with.  It's rare that this will be acknowledged in any way, other than by an automated response.

I've made a few follow up calls but that's what has got me thinking further about the best approach: how do I keep me in their minds but the right reasons,not because I'm a pest?

Thanks all,  Kirsty

Sounds like Brian works for a recruitment agency. You can spot them a mile off, telling people that things are picking up, or they're seeing signs of improvement when things are plainly in the toilet and probably likely to get worse.

by all means comment on my opinions, and feel free to disagree with me, but don't make assumptions or comments about me personally - ok?

maybe you remember me giving you some help when you were asking about how to search members in the database:

http://community.cimaglobal.com/discussions/using-cimasphere/list-member...

not even a thankyou for that.. some manners?

Kirsty,

From my own experience please note the following points regarding agencies;

a) Not all Job adverts are for real jobs that exist. Most of them are just mean't to refresh their database with new CVs. Just to prove this point, you will notice that most of them keep posting adverts during the night or even weekends, why not ,after all it does not cost them a penny. Pay serious attention to adverts in the newspapers. I only became aware of this last year when I attended a recruitment fair with one of the agencies. They failed to deny or accept this fact which in my mind sort of confirmed it.

b) You are also unlikely to get a different job to what you are currently doing through an agency. Their selling point is what you have done in the past and not what you are capable of doing and therefore they just end up helping you to get a similar position. Direct applications have always worked for me, unfortunately they are not many job adverts these days (due to GFC).

c) The issue of whether you are ACMA or not does not make any difference to the way you are treated by agencies. I'm ACMA with tonnes of experience but still having similar problems. I think the main problem is that there are too many Accountants looking for very few jobs in the market which has increased the competition.

My advice is "keep trying" but don't put too much effort on agencies.

Felix (ACMA)

I think there are two things worth pointing out here.

Firstly recruitment consultants primary source of revenue is by placing candidates. All those adverts and consultants cost money. If they weren't placing people successfully then they wouldn't be getting any revenue, and eventually they would be going bust. So they must be placing some candidates in some jobs!

Secondly is whether they add any value! A point of contention obviously from this debate. But surely if companies could successfully recruit themselves recruitment consultants wouldn't exist. Companies do pay them and they do find candidates - so as any accountant will tell you they must add at least some value...

- agree with most of what Felix said, but I tihnk being an ACMA is important, it is not, and i have said this many times a golden bullet. but its certainly a case that some roles which were previoulsy filled by PQs are now being sort afterby NQs as a minimum..

Right I'm off to hand in my notice and start up a recruitment consultancy..

Really interesting to see both sides of the debate raging here (and in on-the-fence style I can agree with parts of both...)

Brian asked a few questions earlier, the answers to which may invite further comment.  The region I'm based in is London and ideally I'd like to work somewhere centrally but will consider a reasonable commute for the right role (I'm currently over an hour between home and work).

I'm part-qualified, will complete Management level at the May exams and will be sitting strategic in November.

My current role is predominantly analysis of royalty revenue with a considerable amount of management reporting in the form of KPIs, financial reports to our Board, communicating performance against target to non-financial managers and lots of ad hoc data analysis. My experience is currently lacking in the monthly preparation of management accounts area, and this is the area I'd like to develop further.  I'm starting a shadowing programme next week with our Finance team (something I've set up on my own) so I'm hoping I'll be able to build the accounts prep experience gradually over the next few months through holiday cover and shadowing so I have something else to offer potential employers.

My experience isn't solid as I've kind of created my current role from scratch in recent years.  I prepared Board reports for our company directors in a previous role, looked into how I could develop this and financial reporting as a career and then elected to study CIMA (I'm self-funded).  In doing so I've been lucky enough to have been given reign to set up an analysis team (I recruited and now manage two Analysts and a software developer) and have now reached the stage where the team are now fully trained and I'm ready to move on in my development.

My degree is in Media Theory, and my previous employment experience was in store management of a large and very well known entertainment retailer.

I'm perfectly aware that I'm up against individuals with finance degrees and those who have worked their way up from junior roles.  What I can offer however is a huge amount of management experience (people, team and process), knowledge of retail and music/media sectors and a dedication to progressing in a career I came a little late to but have shown determination in bringing myself up to speed.

Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on which agencies can be recommended...

And thanks again to all for continuing this discussion and taking the time to read on.

Kirsty,

I read the answers to my questions and I think a few things fell into place for me. Firstly let me say these just relate to my experiences, and I'm sure others will disagree.

let me comment on this:

My experience isn't solid as I've kind of created my current role from scratch in recent years.  I prepared Board reports for our company directors in a previous role, looked into how I could develop this and financial reporting as a career and then elected to study CIMA (I'm self-funded).  In doing so I've been lucky enough to have been given reign to set up an analysis team (I recruited and now manage two Analysts and a software developer) and have now reached the stage where the team are now fully trained and I'm ready to move on in my development.

Wow! Very impressed. It seems very disappointing that your company gives you a team to manage, yet won't support your study. Have you asked for funding?

You are in a very similar position to myself about 3 years ago, and the issue I had then was being a manager of staff but not being fully qualified. The problem I found with this is that most people following a traditional finance career won't manage staff until they are qualified. I had a host of other skills like yourself but it was very difficult to be considered as a serious applicant until I got those letters.

I'd urge you not to get disheartened with this situation though. Try and have a look for some non-traditional finance roles which play to your strengths, is the possibility of internal promotion out of the question? Focus in on media / music roles where being an accountant is an addition to your skills, not a requirement.

The worst case scenario is having to wait it out a year whilst finishing the exams. This may not be a bad situation though. The Strategics can be a study nightmare, and therefore having a job which doesn't challenge you whilst you complete these may actually be a blessing in disguise. Then once you are qualified you are in a very strong position.

From the sounds of what you have acheived so far, the practical experience won't be too much of a challenge for you..

Is a longer term secondment to finance out of the question?

Best Wishes

Brian 

Kirsty,

I presume when you say that you have to remain 2 full years, you mean that if you left you would be liable to pay your tuition fees.

I can't see why you wouldn't take up this offer.

- if you are going to pay as you are going along, take the money you would have paid the tuition provider and put in an ISA. at least that way you are getting some return off it - if you do have to withdraw it and pay it back.

- if you do stay the 2 years (just by chance) you will be financially better off by quite a few thousand pounds i expect.

- if you do leave and find a better role, lots of companies (and there has been another tread on this with lots of discussion..!!) will pay the fees to bring you over.

- most of these 2 year tie ins, are rolling windows. So if you left 1.5 years after you qualified you would only pay back the last half year of tuition you had (e.g. topcima) - you should check the agreement carefully.. you would still be much better off in this situation

Apologies for going completely off track!!

Thanks B

I think that £10k you quote is really stretching the facts by quoting the highest of the high. Usually the figure is 15% not 20% and using London weighting of salaries is a bit distorting. Non London salaries tend to be mid £30ks upwards outside London for newly qualified or downwards for non qualified. Most fees will be nearer my figure or £4k than your of £10k.

Plus advertising on the web doesn't yield good results outside of London (or major cities). In Hull you wouldn't attract sufficient candidates that way. The most will come via agencies or local press.

Thanks everyone for the continued comments and feedback.

Victoria - congrats on the new job!  Even if it's not your dream role it must be a relief after previously being matched with unsuitable positions to get something which does suit you.  Best of luck with it, wish you well.

Mervyn - sounds like we'e in a similar boat really.  There is a comfort in knowing that, and at the same time a burgeoning frustration that there are sure to be others out there and with no means to improve the situation.  Good luck with your search...

All roads seem to be pointing towards persevering with the agencies and entering into applications with the lowest expectation threshold possible.  Coupled with firing off some speculative applications to some well-chosen companies maybe something will bear fruit.  I do take the point that with the level of work Strategic involves (plus I'm also planning a wedding for next year) that it maybe wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for me to remain in my current role for a little bit longer.

Some positive and negative experiences of agencies here, but as that's where lots of the roles are I'm definitely still keen to hear of any recommendations for companies which have surpassed applicants expectations, or indeed from recruiters themselves....