MyCIMA

Time to rethink CIMA's Strategic Objectives?

Posted: Saturday 12 September 2009 by B
Replies : 9

According to CIMA's Annual Review 2008 the No 1 KPI is membership growth. Is this an appropriate objective?

According to the latest FRC Key Facts and Trends in The Accountancy Profession, CIMA membership in UK & ROI grew from 48,986 to 60,870 between 2003 and 2008. This would be excellent news if this waa gaining market share at the expense of one of the other CCAB bodies, however it is not. The total membership of all CCAB bodies ICAEW etc including CIMA grew from 252K to 286K in the same period. That's a whopping 34,000 extra members in all bodies over a five year period. Similar statistics exist for student numbers and the total global member population.

Whilst we are in unprecedented economic times and the UK and Global economices will slowly recover from the current turmoil I feel the above numbers actually make uncomfortable reading for the long term future of accounting professionals.

Recent posts on this forum have raised the difficulty of finding employment in the current climate. Other posts have raised the issue of ACA's being perceived as superior to CIMA in South Africa (actually I believe this is a global problem)

My concern is that that CIMA along with the other CCAB bodies are driving membership and student growth in a fairly static market. If CIMA was gaining ground at the expense of other bodies that would be something but it isn't.

Given the over supply of accountants the market has adjusted to filter candidates searching for new roles. This has evolved from CIMA qualfied to CIMA and degree, degree becoming 2.1 etc. Increasingly many job adverts specify ACA, Ex Big 4. I see very little being done to redress the perceived snob value in the ACA brand. In the UK and probably many other major markets I feel that ACA's are viewed as the 'gold standard' with others CIMA, ACCA etc being viewed as inferior or second best.

In 2004/2005 a three way merger between ICAEW, CIMA and CIPFA was proposed. CIMA withdrew from the discussions and only CIPFA and ICAEW put it to a vote. I feel this was not in the best interest of CIMA members and that something needs to be done to deal with the current problem of over supply of accountants. I don't know what the answer is; merger, harder exams or something else but I do know something needs to be done. I am proud of my CIMA qualification but when that qualification seems to be viewed as second best one has to wonder what the future holds?   

 http://www.frc.org.uk/images/uploaded/documents/Final%20Version%20of%20Seventh%20Edition%20KFAT.pdf 

Work Experience

Posted by Ronaldo McDonaldo on Sunday 13 September 2009 16:36

Isn't that where the work experience side of things comes into it? You can work as a Tesco shelf stacker and pass all of the CIMA exams but you'll not be an accountant just a "passed finalist". The passed finalist term seems to be taken as being the same as a fully qualified accountant from what I can see.

 

 

The FT publishes the names of all of the PF's but like I said you could have never had a job in your life and become one - they don't seem to make such a big deal about the people that actually fully qualify. I think they need to try to emphasise the fact that you have to get the work experience before you are actually finished, if you don't have that then you'll just be over qualified for every job you go for if you complete all the exams. Maybe they should prevent anyone from taking the last exam who doesn't have their career profile signed off. If that happened then I think it would have a stronger impact than making the exams harder.

 

Why is it so difficult to write paragraphs on this website? 

  • Reported

Work Experience?

Posted by B on Sunday 13 September 2009 18:42

I think you're missing my point. The goal of membership growth (all bodies) has led to a massive over supply of accountants i.e. students, part qualifieds and members many with many years of extensive experience. I read a post the other day on here about recruiters wanting sector specific experience this is another symptom of over supply so FMCG co wants FMCG experience, media co. wants Media experience ... actually in many cases this is driven by agency recruiters who in the main know nothing about accountancy (and I'm being kind with that statement). I have worked in various sectors without a problem as I'm sure many others have but now when vacancies are advertised it seems to be a requirement of the role to have worked in a certain sector previously.

 

As another question to reader of this thread how many accountants over 50 do you work with or have you worked with? I haven't seen many in many career (I'm under 40!). Have they all made masses of money and retired, I don't think so. Age discrimination despite being illegal is still widespread in the UK but as with all things is difficult to prove.

@ronaldo

Posted by sigma on Sunday 13 September 2009 20:45
in the 2010 sylabbus you cannot pass topcima until you have your practical experience completed and have passed the case study exam. i agree with what you are saying - its worth more for the ft to publish a list of the new acma's because that is what cima aims to produce, not passed finalists. if you think about it, a passed finalist is like a university graduate. the training is what bridges the gap between being that and an accountant in business.

@brendan

Posted by sigma on Sunday 13 September 2009 20:59
in south africa we dont have aca's, we have ca's. same thing essentially i guess, just a different body. the difference over here is that we have a shortage of accountants. more so because most move to the uk or australia. also our local companies dont like to train people for some reason so that shortage is going to be around for a long time. i think membership growth can be slowed but maybe that should apply only in areas that have a over supply and cima should concentrate on areas with a under supply. i guess the problem in the uk is that all the bodies have to jointly curtail growth or else one may dominate another to such an extent that it will be pushed out of the market. and with joint agreements everyone needs to come to the table which is not the easiest thing because all the bodies have different goals and strategies, the idea would be to somehow align them. also keep in mind that the recession is more or less still in full force so taking decisions now may not be the best for the future

CIMA

Posted by Ronaldo McDonaldo on Monday 14 September 2009 08:32
Regarding the point about jobs requiring specific experience in that sector making it difficult to change the sector you work in, I think that that might be more to do with the recession and people being able to discriminate a little. If people were not being made redundant like they are then I think it would be a little bit more open.

Job Market

Posted by Dean on Thursday 17 September 2009 13:59
This is a very interesting topic. I agree with the poster's assessment of the job market right now. I qualified a few months ago and motivated myself throughout my studies by thinking I could work in any industry and on decent money once I qualified. How wrong I was! Most companies are looking for candidates with experience in that industry which is extremely annoying if you're not happy with the sector you're currently working in - also salaries being advertised for many jobs seem almost insulting right now. A recession is always a difficult period to try and find a new job but I cant help but thinking there is a massive over-supply of Accountants in the UK as well, which has made it harder for Finance professionals than say Lawyers, HR, IT Professionals etc. Speaking to many recruitment companies lately - it certainly appears to be the case. Im sick of seeing ads saying 2:1 degree or higher, red brick university, Big 4 Background etc etc. Its a big concern to me personally as qualifying hasnt met my expectations in terms of job opportunities thus far. Im beginning to wonder if I made the right career choice at the momment.

Salaries

Posted by SP on Thursday 17 September 2009 14:36

Dean wrote:
This is a very interesting topic. I agree with the poster's assessment of the job market right now. I qualified a few months ago and motivated myself throughout my studies by thinking I could work in any industry and on decent money once I qualified. How wrong I was! Most companies are looking for candidates with experience in that industry which is extremely annoying if you're not happy with the sector you're currently working in - also salaries being advertised for many jobs seem almost insulting right now. A recession is always a difficult period to try and find a new job but I cant help but thinking there is a massive over-supply of Accountants in the UK as well, which has made it harder for Finance professionals than say Lawyers, HR, IT Professionals etc. Speaking to many recruitment companies lately - it certainly appears to be the case. Im sick of seeing ads saying 2:1 degree or higher, red brick university, Big 4 Background etc etc. Its a big concern to me personally as qualifying hasnt met my expectations in terms of job opportunities thus far. Im beginning to wonder if I made the right career choice at the momment.

 

I'd certainly agree that (for whatever reason) salaries are nowhere near what the CIMA salary survey suggests can be expected.   

What is CIMA's 'brand equity'?

Posted by Jamshed Mehta on Saturday 28 August 2010 07:47

Well let's remember that an organisation is popular or respected because certain attributes are related to its sucess.

Is CIMA a bookeeper's institute ?

Is CIMA an auditor's institute?

Is CIMA a company accountant instute ?

Is CIMA a tax practioner's institure ?

Is CIMA an administrator's institute ?

Is CIMA a management consultant's institure ?

Is CIMA a corporate/etc. strategist's institute ?

No.

CIMA should expose itself as its original self when created.

CIMA is a cost accountant's institute.

The word "COST" seems to embarrass the CIMA establishment.

If a CIMA qualified person can use the established cost techniques prescribed over the years and can give true costs, that person will be respected by any sensible management.

However, it appears that this funtion of costing has beem hijacked by engineers and MBAs.

How many CIMA qualified persons can work out the cost of electricity to a factory/building ? If you do not know what is KWHs and 'transmission losses' you are going to be under the engineer's thumb.

The CIMA papers should have more on practical metrics like KWhs, Pound/Km. , Cost/therm/pressure.

If the costs at the penny level are accurate, the higher metrics would make sense. BI depends on accuracy. Accuracy is directly proportional to rigour. The true Management Accountant should be more concerned of the basis, collection. calculation, interpretation and presenation of each element of cost.

Possibly there should be another Institute called the Chartered Institute of Cost Engineers/Technicians.

Or may be CIMA should evolve into that.

Cheers!!!

Jamshed F. Mehta, Mumbai, India.

 

 

A problem

Posted by Cliff Moggs on Sunday 12 September 2010 09:59
Brendan, your good question was forced to be posted in 'Career talk'. It is an appropriate question and not surprisingly ignored by the Executive. Perhasp the reason for not having an appropriae section for this type of discussion is to show the power of the Executive by ignoring. Best regards Cliff Moggs